Nas - Oochie Wally

[FreeSpeech]

Wheras Freespeech, this song was hardly Nas' and the real lowpoints where the other verses and the hook, Nas' actual verse was just subpar but still listenable.

Are you arguing with me, because that's exactly what I said...

[One Mic]

^^^Shut the fuck up. This is why people say you're a stan. He made possibly the worst rap song ever, whether it was intentional or not, it doesn't matter.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but....REAL FUCKING TALK.

Eminem is one of my favourite rappers of all time, but he has also made some of the most horrible/awful/corny tracks of all time too (especially as far as hip hop is concerned)

From puerile content, to horrible lame 'voices' and forced accents, he has covered every spectrum of 'awful'

Even the average Soulja Boy song isn't as corny as Eminem's corniest shit

I'd rather be caught bumping Crank That than the likes of Ass Like That / FACK / We Made You / Big Weenie etc

[dead prez]

Wheras Freespeech, this song was hardly Nas' and the real lowpoints where the other verses and the hook, Nas' actual verse was just subpar but still listenable.

Are you arguing with me, because that's exactly what I said...

I'm agreeing with you.

[classthe_king]

^^^Shut the fuck up. This is why people say you're a stan. He made possibly the worst rap song ever, whether it was intentional or not, it doesn't matter.

Of course it matters you retard.

It makes no sense to call an intentionally silly song silly as if it's an accident.

That is literally like watching fucking South Park and seeing say, the Gordon Ramsay impression and saying "that's the worst impression ever" as if Trey Parker failed at doing the impression. He fucking intended it to be awful.

I'm not a Stan because I don't agree with your retarded logic. Like I said, I'm not saying the song is not awful. If you find it awful then you find it awful, but yes the intention changes everything.

Oh so Eminem was just like, "Hey Dre, I have the funniest idea ever yo. I'm going to make the worst rap song of all time. It will be SOOOOOO funny."


lolololololololol shut the fuck up. You're delusional.

[EminemBase]

^^^Shut the fuck up. This is why people say you're a stan. He made possibly the worst rap song ever, whether it was intentional or not, it doesn't matter.

Of course it matters you retard.

It makes no sense to call an intentionally silly song silly as if it's an accident.

That is literally like watching fucking South Park and seeing say, the Gordon Ramsay impression and saying "that's the worst impression ever" as if Trey Parker failed at doing the impression. He fucking intended it to be awful.

I'm not a Stan because I don't agree with your retarded logic. Like I said, I'm not saying the song is not awful. If you find it awful then you find it awful, but yes the intention changes everything.

Oh so Eminem was just like, "Hey Dre, I have the funniest idea ever yo. I'm going to make the worst rap song of all time. It will be SOOOOOO funny."


lolololololololol shut the fuck up. You're delusional.

Nooooooooooo. Eminem decided to make a retarded song thinking it was funny.

You think I'm delusional for thinking Eminem meant for "Big Weenie" or "Fack" to be silly?

Have you once here seen me say the songs are NOT awful? No. Have you once here seen me defend them in execution or ANY aspect other than intent? NO.

So try reading with your fucking eyes you moron.

All I am saying is the INTENT changes it drastically.

And, a truly bad Eminem song would be something he made in his drug period but intended to be good ie. a drab, awful self-reflective song where he couldn't rhyme properly. Those kinds of songs are much worse than songs he intends to be ridiculous. Logically speaking.

I see those silly songs as throwaway songs and yes they're bad songs. But they're not the same as trying to make a song good and genuine and it coming across shit. That's WORSE.

If I were to insult you right now and call you a "pooper" - would you not say that's OBVIOUSLY a fucking ridiculous insult. And no idiot (bar maybe yourself) would think that's my best attempt at insulting you. So it wouldn't make sense to say "that's a bad insult".

Where as, if it was clear I tried my best and wrote a huge analysis of you and it didn't hit home - THEN it would make sense, to say I failed.

[classthe_king]

Nooooooooooo. Eminem decided to make a retarded song thinking it was funny.

But he failed miserably, creating a song that wasn't even close to funny and and embarrasment to not only himself, but the genre as a whole.

You think I'm delusional for thinking Eminem meant a song called "Big Weenie" to be silly?

No, you're delusional because you think since because he made it bad on purpose it wasn't as bad. "Yo, that 1/10 song isn't as bad as that 4/10 song because he made it bad on purpose."

I see those silly songs as throwaway songs and yes they're bad songs. But they're not the same as trying to make a song good and genuine and it coming across shit. That's WORSE.

No it's not.

[dead prez]

Class only cares about the final product so trying to tell him that he intended to make a "silly" song isn't going to change his mind.

And yes we know you think this is a shit song, but we're not going to give a free pass to Eminem, just because he supposedly intended to make a "silly" song. It's like giving credit for an Eminem song being relatable, without actually addressing the execution off it.

[EminemBase]

But he failed miserably, creating a song that wasn't even close to funny and and embarrasment to not only himself, but the genre as a whole.

No you fail miserably for failing to understand intent. You're a cretin.

No, you're delusional because you think since because he made it bad on purpose it wasn't as bad. "Yo, that 1/10 song isn't as bad as that 4/10 song because he made it bad on purpose."

No. Once again, I didn't say the songs were not awful and at no point have I defended the finished product or even approached the debate of quality.

The only thing I have debated is intent and yet you fail to comprehend that's the only aim of my argument. I'm not saying the songs should be rated higher, I'm saying a purposely ridiculous song is not as bad as a song which is trying to be serious - but comes across ridiculous.

Like I said, would you consider a purposely bad, joke impression by Trey Parker to be in the same category as a genuinely failed impression, by somebody trying to actually replicate somebody?

No it's not.

Yes it is.

[EminemBase]

And yes we know you think this is a shit song, but we're not going to give a free pass to Eminem, just because he supposedly intended to make a "silly" song. It's like giving credit for an Eminem song being relatable, without actually addressing the execution off it.

I'm not saying to give Eminem a 'free pass'.

I'm saying, those songs are in a different category. Now, a song like "Mosh" is more up for debate as a bad song in my opinion. A song where he's genuinely lazy or tired and trying to achieve something but failing.

And, I like "Mosh". But that song is a proper contender for a song which aims for a serious intent and which arguably fails in many aspects to people. That makes it genuinely bad.

The aim of "Fack" was to be stupid as fuck. Is that not what it is?...

Now, if you wanna talk execution, I don't think the flow is bad I just think the song content is absurd so that's why it's a bad song. But it achieves its goal in being stupid as fuck...

So that's a lot different than a song aiming for X and failing to achieve X.

[classthe_king]

No you fail miserably for failing to understand intent. You're a cretin.

I know what intent is you jack ass. Intent doesn't matter.

The only thing I have debated is intent and yet you fail to comprehend that's the only aim of my argument. I'm not saying the songs should be rated higher, I'm saying a purposely ridiculous song is not as bad as a song which is trying to be serious - but comes across ridiculous.

No I completely understand your argument, but your argument is wrong. When a purposely ridiculous song is more ridiculous than an accidental ridiculous song it it still more ridiculous, and therefore, worse.

Like I said, would you consider a purposely bad, joke impression by Trey Parker to be in the same category as a genuinely failed impression, by somebody trying to actually replicate somebody?

Jesus, we get the damn analogy, you don't need to say it 5 times. This is rap, not comedy.

[EminemBase]

I know what intent is you jack ass. Intent doesn't matter.

How the fuck does intent not matter...

So, with The Marshall Mathers LP - offence is just offence then? Eminem's intent and self-awareness of the situation didn't matter any?

No I completely understand your argument, but your argument is wrong. When a purposely ridiculous song is more ridiculous than an accidental ridiculous song it it still more ridiculous, and therefore, worse.

No it's not.

If a song is made to be stupid as fuck, and IS stupid as fuck = Then that song achieves its goal of being, stupid as fuck.

Now, if a song is made to be profound and interesting and yet comes across as stupid as fuck = That song fails its aims and is therefore, worse and a failure.

The stupid as fuck song could be objectively, a worse made song. But the song which failed its intent - is a bigger failure, and it's a different kind of failure.

Jesus, we get the damn analogy, you don't need to say it 5 times. This is rap, not comedy.

Well then answer the question if you get it.

It doesn't matter if it's rap not comedy because the song in question, Eminem is intending to be funny. So actually, it is comedy too.

And, the logic still applies regardless. The logic is intent and that's non-specific.

[classthe_king]

Do you even understand what you're saying. Nas didn't make this song to be profound or anything, it was just an average rap verse, maybe even slightly below average. Eminem made a HORRIBLE song, stupid as fuck, one of the worst songs of all time, whether that's what he was trying to do or not. As The World Turns is a silly song? Yes? And that is a great song.

And since you like analogies so much here's one for you.

Runner A was trying to win the race
Runner B was trying to come in dead last.

Runner A came in 5th and Runner B came in dead last. Who finished higher in the race?

[EminemBase]

Do you even understand what you're saying. Nas didn't make this song to be profound or anything, it was just an average rap verse, maybe even slightly below average. Eminem made a HORRIBLE song, stupid as fuck, one of the worst songs of all time, whether that's what he was trying to do or not. As The World Turns is a silly song? Yes? And that is a great song.

Yes I do understand what I am saying.

I'm saying that intent changes the category of failure. I didn't say Nas intended the song to be profound I didn't mention this song.

I said a song that intends to be that but comes across stupid as fuck would be a bigger, and different kind of failure than a song which intended to be stupid as fuck. If the song is meant to be stupid as fuck and is - how is that a failure?

It can still be a horrible song which you hate. But that's still different.

Runner A was trying to win the race
Runner B was trying to come in dead last.

Runner A came in 5th and Runner B came in dead last. Who finished higher in the race?

Runner A finished higher in the race.

But if you're implying the runner's intent doesn't matter, well, ask this question...

Runner B was trying to come last yes? and, he came last?... okay. Now, did Runner B FAIL in his intent then? No. He was trying to come last and did, so he succeeded in his intent.

He lost the race, but wanted to. So how is that in the same category as somebody trying to win the race and unable to...

[dead prez]

I'm not saying to give Eminem a 'free pass'.

I'm saying, those songs are in a different category. Now, a song like "Mosh" is more up for debate as a bad song in my opinion. A song where he's genuinely lazy or tired and trying to achieve something but failing.

So comparing them would be pointless to begin with I guess, but I do think he executes Big Weenie horribly.

Though I will say Oochie Wally is hardly Nas' song and more of a feature, the real lowpoints aren't even his faults. His verse was bland, but other factors is what contributed to making the song shitty.

The aim of "Fack" was to be stupid as fuck. Is that not what it is?...

So the whole premise is just stupid and he should be slapped for making it in the first place.

If I had to choose between punching a man who tries to make a good song but fails miserably, and someone that intentionally makes a retarded song with a horrible premise, I'd without a doubt punch the latter without hesitation.

Now, if you wanna talk execution, I don't think the flow is bad I just think the song content is absurd so that's why it's a bad song. But it achieves its goal in being stupid as fuck...

So that's a lot different than a song aiming for X and failing to achieve X.

The chorus is horrendous and obnoxious and unlike the Nas song it's actually Em rapping it, oh and I find his delivery lazy as fuck. The whole song is just a mess, there's no getting around it.

I guess you could say he intentionally tried to make a retarded song, but I don't really see how that strengthens your point tbh.

[classthe_king]

But really, what's the purpose of music? To be enjoyed by the listener. That's it. Biggie Weenie is less enjoyable than the other song so it was a bigger fail. That's it. There's no different categories or intent. You can't say Eminem PURPOSELY made the song bad, because if we want to go by your logic than making a song bad on purpose to begin with is in a completely different and bigger category of fail, unmatched by anything made that was intended to be good.