What makes Eminem so great?

[whiteamerica]

Hmm not really as that's what genius is. Being able to take the current state, whatever state it's in and transform it into something original and brilliant.

Generally speaking you could say it gets harder to be original but... throughout history people have for example said 'everything that needs to be invented, has been invented'. And look what's happened in the past one hundred years alone. The staggering leaps of innovation.

By definition, you can't see what hasn't been done yet. With art, it's even more endless and accessible. As it's not about creating a solution to a problem, you can go ANYWHERE, and do ANY IDEA. So no, there's no excuse for doing 'the same old', other than being a bad artist.

I can think of literally... a fucking book's worth of ideas that I have never heard done in my life. And which a talented lyricist or musician could turn into wonder. People don't think abstract enough, they think formally, there's no rules, you can re-write the rules every time, there's no limits.

I mean seriously, just stop and think and dream-up an idea as you sit there now. Not a grounded, sensible idea, ANY fucking idea. I mean, there's no rules. Everybody treats it like there's rules like "okay, I have to do three verses and talk about X,Y,Z in this kind of fashion". Why not just make a song expressing a mood?

Or, let's say with Hell: The Sequel for example, why not make it a truly conceptual album of being welcomed into hell itself. And the intro is Eminem and Royce welcoming you, describing the dark, fucked up surroundings lyrically, using atmospheric music as a driving force and back drop, think of the sound effects, think of the possibilities. Instead, they just spit fucking punchlines.

Which just highlights how seriously limited in talent and thought gangsta rappers etc. are. I don't know how an artist could even bare to do the same kind of song twice, nevermind album after fucking album of the same, repetitive, primitive crap. COUGH 50 COUGH.

All the good rappers waste their talents too. The only one I've seen at least attempt to break free is Kanye. With MBDTF he was trying to just ignore sense and convention and just let his mind breathe through his work. I still feel he's just getting started and that the album was a turning point, and the start of his REAL career. Songs about your mother and college are fine, but meh. But "Power", "Hell of a Life"? that's more like it. It's visual, conceptual, he's following his fantasies and making them realistic and authentic. He's becoming a true artist.

I mean, even Em etc. they think so fucking small. It's so frustrating.

agree on HTS; boring and bad and generic.

but eminem brought a new perspective on an old game, he brought his own feeling and personality into an already established set of ideas.... you don't have to be ENTIRELY and TOTALLY innovative.... you can simply bring a new perspective to another idea. Lose Yourself was genius, but Lose Yourself was similar to plenty of rap songs conceptually and technically.... there was nothing new about multis, rapping about being poor, or any of it.......eminem just brought it and composed a crazy song with damn near flawless rhyming and delivery. Lose Yourself was genius, but lose yourself was not a new invention in rap.

in other words he progresses and grows upon an already existing idea.

i think we agree to an extent but you take a more radical approach on what you consider genius. unless i'm misinterpreting your post(s).

[EminemInsider]

Hmm not really as that's what genius is. Being able to take the current state, whatever state it's in and transform it into something original and brilliant.

Generally speaking you could say it gets harder to be original but... throughout history people have for example said 'everything that needs to be invented, has been invented'. And look what's happened in the past one hundred years alone. The staggering leaps of innovation.

By definition, you can't see what hasn't been done yet. With art, it's even more endless and accessible. As it's not about creating a solution to a problem, you can go ANYWHERE, and do ANY IDEA. So no, there's no excuse for doing 'the same old', other than being a bad artist.

I can think of literally... a fucking book's worth of ideas that I have never heard done in my life. And which a talented lyricist or musician could turn into wonder. People don't think abstract enough, they think formally, there's no rules, you can re-write the rules every time, there's no limits.

I mean seriously, just stop and think and dream-up an idea as you sit there now. Not a grounded, sensible idea, ANY fucking idea. I mean, there's no rules. Everybody treats it like there's rules like "okay, I have to do three verses and talk about X,Y,Z in this kind of fashion". Why not just make a song expressing a mood?

Or, let's say with Hell: The Sequel for example, why not make it a truly conceptual album of being welcomed into hell itself. And the intro is Eminem and Royce welcoming you, describing the dark, fucked up surroundings lyrically, using atmospheric music as a driving force and back drop, think of the sound effects, think of the possibilities. Instead, they just spit fucking punchlines.

Which just highlights how seriously limited in talent and thought gangsta rappers etc. are. I don't know how an artist could even bare to do the same kind of song twice, nevermind album after fucking album of the same, repetitive, primitive crap. COUGH 50 COUGH.

All the good rappers waste their talents too. The only one I've seen at least attempt to break free is Kanye. With MBDTF he was trying to just ignore sense and convention and just let his mind breathe through his work. I still feel he's just getting started and that the album was a turning point, and the start of his REAL career. Songs about your mother and college are fine, but meh. But "Power", "Hell of a Life"? that's more like it. It's visual, conceptual, he's following his fantasies and making them realistic and authentic. He's becoming a true artist.

I mean, even Em etc. they think so fucking small. It's so frustrating.

agree on HTS; boring and bad and generic.

but eminem brought a new perspective on an old game, he brought his own feeling and personality into an already established set of ideas.... you don't have to be ENTIRELY and TOTALLY innovative.... you can simply bring a new perspective to another idea. Lose Yourself was genius, but Lose Yourself was similar to plenty of rap songs conceptually and technically.... there was nothing new about multis, rapping about being poor, or any of it.......eminem just brought it and composed a crazy song with damn near flawless rhyming and delivery. Lose Yourself was genius, but lose yourself was not a new invention in rap.

in other words he progresses and grows upon an already existing idea.

i think we agree to an extent but you take a more radical approach on what you consider genius. unless i'm misinterpreting your post(s).

Nobody's ever rhymed stylistically like Eminem did on Lose Yourself. It's an absolute web of rhymes.

[Mr Change]

I will go out on a limb and say that Eminem might be the greatest rap lyricist ever. And I mean, ever.

[MikeNUFC]

No rapper has ever used literary techniques as well as Eminem. That's before we get to his rhyming/flow.

I agree with EmBase that he's the only rapper ever that I'd describe as genius.

[EminemBase]

Hmm not really as that's what genius is. Being able to take the current state, whatever state it's in and transform it into something original and brilliant.

Generally speaking you could say it gets harder to be original but... throughout history people have for example said 'everything that needs to be invented, has been invented'. And look what's happened in the past one hundred years alone. The staggering leaps of innovation.

By definition, you can't see what hasn't been done yet. With art, it's even more endless and accessible. As it's not about creating a solution to a problem, you can go ANYWHERE, and do ANY IDEA. So no, there's no excuse for doing 'the same old', other than being a bad artist.

I can think of literally... a fucking book's worth of ideas that I have never heard done in my life. And which a talented lyricist or musician could turn into wonder. People don't think abstract enough, they think formally, there's no rules, you can re-write the rules every time, there's no limits.

I mean seriously, just stop and think and dream-up an idea as you sit there now. Not a grounded, sensible idea, ANY fucking idea. I mean, there's no rules. Everybody treats it like there's rules like "okay, I have to do three verses and talk about X,Y,Z in this kind of fashion". Why not just make a song expressing a mood?

Or, let's say with Hell: The Sequel for example, why not make it a truly conceptual album of being welcomed into hell itself. And the intro is Eminem and Royce welcoming you, describing the dark, fucked up surroundings lyrically, using atmospheric music as a driving force and back drop, think of the sound effects, think of the possibilities. Instead, they just spit fucking punchlines.

Which just highlights how seriously limited in talent and thought gangsta rappers etc. are. I don't know how an artist could even bare to do the same kind of song twice, nevermind album after fucking album of the same, repetitive, primitive crap. COUGH 50 COUGH.

All the good rappers waste their talents too. The only one I've seen at least attempt to break free is Kanye. With MBDTF he was trying to just ignore sense and convention and just let his mind breathe through his work. I still feel he's just getting started and that the album was a turning point, and the start of his REAL career. Songs about your mother and college are fine, but meh. But "Power", "Hell of a Life"? that's more like it. It's visual, conceptual, he's following his fantasies and making them realistic and authentic. He's becoming a true artist.

I mean, even Em etc. they think so fucking small. It's so frustrating.

agree on HTS; boring and bad and generic.

but eminem brought a new perspective on an old game, he brought his own feeling and personality into an already established set of ideas.... you don't have to be ENTIRELY and TOTALLY innovative.... you can simply bring a new perspective to another idea. Lose Yourself was genius, but Lose Yourself was similar to plenty of rap songs conceptually and technically.... there was nothing new about multis, rapping about being poor, or any of it.......eminem just brought it and composed a crazy song with damn near flawless rhyming and delivery. Lose Yourself was genius, but lose yourself was not a new invention in rap.

in other words he progresses and grows upon an already existing idea.

i think we agree to an extent but you take a more radical approach on what you consider genius. unless i'm misinterpreting your post(s).

Why are you defending Eminem... when I was the one who said he's the only rapper I'd truly consider a genius lmao? you're responding as if I discredited what Em did

Thing is, Eminem WAS totally innovative. With "Lose Yourself", no, rapping about being poor etc. wasn't innovative but his level of perfection, and his presentation totally was. Rap had never seemed so big and authentic. He made the music feel bigger, it felt like REAL music.

There wasn't much before it that felt like truly solid staples in music. Plenty of classic rap tracks but I'm talking, a real big stomping rock anthem or something. Most other rap attempts just hugely borrowed from other genres or blended something in some way but "Lose Yourself" held its own.

But it's not that song which makes him a genius anyway. Le's talk The Slim Shady LP or The Marshall Mathers LP. Those albums make him an artistic genius. And Nas, or no other rapper I can think of has ever presented something as radically ballsy and new to the mainstream, ever. They're so innovative and brilliant, he flipped the genre upside down.

[SeriallyIller]

In my opinion Eminem is a bit over rated because he is a white rapper. I mean no offense and if ur offended then you take it wrong, im just giving my opinion

in my opinoin 2pac is over rated cuz hes dead

Agreed,i don't see nothing "great'about tupac,or biggie,i mean yeah they're good rappers,and ain't that dope to be the 'face of rap".Tupac only got famous coz of the west coast/east coast beef.
Personally i think biggie's better than pac.